Previous First 1 2 Last Next 22 Replies Latest reply on Aug 12, 2016 12:40 PM by CynicalKook Branched to a new discussion.

    Prophecy makes me want to not play this game, am I missing something?

    arioch376

      I like the whole draw a card when a rune breaks mechanic.  Makes you think twice about rushing someone down and if you're getting rushed it gives you more options. What I don't like is how many games seem to come down to who pulls prophecy cards on their broken runes. The swings are so devastating that there's pretty much no way to play around them since they're completely random. Some are kinda reasonable like the ones that just throw down a small to medium minion, but even they get unreasonable when one player pulls 3 and the opponent pulls none. And the whole kill a minion of your choice for free is ridiculous. The fact that you get such a huge tempo and value swing off a completely random occurrence just makes the game incredibly frustrating to me. I don't see anybody complaining about it on these forums though, everyone else seems to be upset about the extra mana going second, which seems totally fine, so maybe I'm missing something.

        • 1.
          ericlincoln_

          Yes, you are missing the fact that prophecies cards have an increased mana cost for their effects, what means that you are in a disavantage when you don't draw them when runes breaks.

          Also people can build prophecies based decks, that would explain why some people always procs them while you get none. But maybe the fact that you can cast them for free is a little bit too much, maybe play them for half of their cost discounted on your next turn? Let's gather some data regarding winrate and prophecies procing.

          4 of 5 people found this helpful
          • 2.
            Ivvx

            There are ways to play around it. You need to not only get your opponent to zero, you also need a strong enough board presence and enough knowledge about their potential prophecy cards to be confident when you break those runes.

             

            The tempo swings in that case, when they do happen at all, are far less likely to impact your winning board or theirs and mess with the status quo of it. It's a thing to play with and against and an additional factor to take into consideration when bashing face and as such only adds to the game. If you know how, it adds more to you than to them.

             

            If you're new to the beta, try playing a bit more. At first it can be infuriating (who am I kidding, it's still infuriating in the Arena sometimes), but it's something that CAN be played around and can be taken into account as you play and develop your board and corner the opponent. It adds an extra dimension of care to the game and avoids HS-like 'clear minion, hit face' strategic "depth".

             

            While it *is* based on RNG, that's not all that it adds to the game - it adds a whole layer of strategy based off negating it and also making it work in your favour. Which makes the games a lot more interesting than the competition.

             

            EDIT: Thinking about what you guys have written and as much as I disagree with most of it, one thing is true - some prophecy cards at least should be retooled and reworked so they are actually useful as cards even when not played as a prophecy. Just look at Ransack - 6 cost card to steal 3 life from someone. Or that Dreugh, 7 cost just to gain 4 health. And so on. Prophecy should stay as is, but cards should be balanced to be useful outside that mechanic too because some are utterly useless if they aren't drawn as prophecies.

            5 of 5 people found this helpful
            • 3.
              Supertoad

              prophecy is dumb as hell. You get to play a free 4 damage or insta kill spell based on the enemy attacking and luck? dumb... If ANYTHING; they should let you play prophecy cards BUT the mana you use on the card comes out of your next turn; no more free crap. Prophecy is ruining some of the enjoyment for me of the otherwise fantastic game!

              2 of 11 people found this helpful
              • 4.
                Ivvx

                Doing that would throw the whole prophecy thing into the water - their costs would no longer justify their inclusion into the decks. Even if they were cheapened. Because why on Earth would I want to play an unreliable prophecy if I can play a tried and tested card instead? It's risk vs. reward and you're supposed to learn to manage that (whenever possible).

                 

                I can't believe so many vocal people are getting salty over losing a game or two to a well pulled prophecy card to the point where there are calls for it to be removed. It adds a lot more than RNG guys and if you don't want to play around it and make it work in your favour while simultaneously denying that to your opponents, other people will. It's a core mechanic of the game.

                 

                Or maybe you can just create decks with those Lightning Bolts and Javelins and the rest of the stuff and start profiting from it like everyone else who plays taking it into account.

                3 of 5 people found this helpful
                • 5.
                  MKJokerface

                  As I say in an other post, Prophecy is the only keyword that include a bit of "unpredictability" when runes disappears, what I think is good for fun, originality and to break up the well-oiled mechanism of this type of game. You have 5 runes, no more, unless your opponent love to heal regularly. Personally I like the game as it is now.

                   

                  Several solutions have been proposed by the community about it :
                  - A Specific price for the use of a Prophecy card. It can be a cost in life, mana or sacrifice. It can be a kind of transfer too by giving something to your opponent (Life, mana, runes)
                  - Half the original price for the use of a Prophecy card
                  - A pool of weaker prophecy cards (not in your deck) that always proc on runebreak
                  - Limit the number of prophecy card in a deck
                  - Limit the number of rune by a percentage/number of prophecy card in a deck
                  - Have a specific mode by grouping all "fun keyword", all "competitibe keyword", and so one
                  - Remove prophecy cards


                  If you guys have others suggestions for Dev, do not hesitate. I don't know if they read the forum

                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                  • 6.
                    MrKatanaNinja

                    currently I've played through the Story mode and a 9-2 Solo arena, so maybe I haven't had enough exposure to it... or something. But personally, I look at prophecy and think "this is a UNIQUE experience" and rarely ever think they are op or to bad.

                     

                    Heres why. As IVVX Said, there is counterplay to it, and its more about board control and decisions to go face or not to go face. Furthermore, usually prophecy cards have ok-ish to bad stats but offer some bonus effect. So you get an immediate boost rather then a long lasting boost. You need to think of it in the light of "Most prophecy cards are crap when they arent played on a prophecy rune" rather then complain that their op when it happens. I feel like the Prophecy system is balanced in that way and that it should be saved in the final game. Toned down, maybe, but definitely not removed.

                     

                    As far as my experience is concerned I LOVE THIS GAME. omg i love this more then i loved Hearthstone on release.

                    4 of 4 people found this helpful
                    • 7.
                      rubberducky182

                      As some people already said, the thing with prophecies is, that their cost is way to high if you don't draw them as a prophecy. So there will never be a "prophecy deck", because that would be absolutely magicka-inefficient. In reality, there are only a few prophecy cards that are worth including anyway, because they have synergy or simply because their stand-alone cost is alright. So the averge deck will probably run like 3 prophecies or so?! So there is obviously a lot of RNG involved when it comes to rune crashing, like a 3/50 or something... but this isn't game breaking, it comes with a cost. And it is such a great mechanic against mindless stupid aggro-face decks... other decks are usually able to play around it and the chances of your opponent to draw a prophecy aren't that high. I would quit TESL if they removed this feature, this is one of the main reasons why I love this game.

                      1 of 2 people found this helpful
                      • 8.
                        flossy

                        I'm gonna have to agree with Ivvx here.  There are plenty of times that I have the opportunity to face bash my opponent, and I'll refrain for one, two, maybe several turns in order to starve them of cards.  Once I build my advantage to a point where even insta-kill cards aren't going to cripple my offense, and I can combo a decent amount of health in one turn, I change strategy from board control to all out aggression.  With that being said, this tactic took me tens of hours in game time to understand.

                         

                        On another note, rush decks are certainly overpowered at this point in the beta, most of the time, if you don't get a perfect draw, prophecy is your only saving grace in these situations.  If anything, it just adds another layer of depth and strategy that isn't present in other games like Blizzard's cash cow.

                         

                        All I can really recommend to you is keep refining your deck.  Most people find out the hard way that cheap decks can smash a deck full of rarer cards if they have better synergy and multiple win conditions. Also, as was already mentioned previously, be a bit more strategic about when you attack your opponent. I've noticed that 75% of opponents face attack if they have ANY opportunity whatsoever, most of the time I allow it on purpose just to stack a card advantage and have a greater possibility of drawing my low cost removals.

                        4 of 4 people found this helpful
                        • 9.
                          Manoekin

                          Agree with Flossy and Ivvx. Many times I'll not attack if it will break a rune because I don't want to give my opponent the advantage while mine isn't solid yet. Had someone down to 6 HP once and waited 3 turns to make sure I could end it in a turn. Also as Flossy said I'll let you spawn your 1 and 2 attack minions while I place mine in the other lane so I can draw a few extra cards. The worst thing you can do in this game is run out of cards imo. Usually if you just throw everything down on the board and go face your opponent will draw some cards to clear the entire board and then you have no cards and they have 3-4 with some a minion or two out. You really just have to think things through and take into account the runes otherwise you will have a hard time in this game.

                          1 of 1 people found this helpful
                          • 10.
                            SadoMessiah

                            I have played around prophecies before and its mostly fine, however what i really dont like about it is that it can turn the tides of a battle in a matter of a single card. Recently I had adapted a really good strategy to work around them and it even gets people to give up when they are at around 20HP because my attack alltogether is around 30 with all monsters on the field. And due to the nature of the strategy the enemie has next to no creatures on the field by that time. However in my last duel I fought against somebody using Strengh (which itself is OP. I mean 2/2 for 1 mana on an item WTF?) and another attribute (I forgot). My strategy was going well and i had him at that point where i could kill im in one turn. But then a prophecy came and turned the whole duel around which lead to me losing. How is that fair. One card should not be able to turn an entire duel around! To do that without prophecies you need 4 or 5 cards and like 3 attacks to do that, but one card? come on, thats OP. Id say just dont make any insta kill cards prophecies or any cards that deal damage to your opponents creatures. Summoning them and buffing them is fine. It punishes YOU for doing what you are supposed to do...

                            1 of 1 people found this helpful
                            • 11.
                              KyteP1

                              I find something uniquely odd about this complaint, and it comes mostly from my perspective as a player of multiple CCG games. Since I've played both HS and MTG, I find the rune and prophecy mechanics to be similar to MTG's instants and Hearthstone's secrets, they come with a fairly balanced drawback of only being free if you get one for every 5 damage you take(key word if), where the other two games balance theirs on mana cost alone. And in HS and MTG forums the response to people getting mad at secrets/instants has always been 'learn to play around them' and that's something I agree with. It's a mechanic of the game on purpose, and it will only frustrate you if you fail to understand how it works and fail to factor it into your strategy.

                               

                              There's already plenty of great tips above for working around the mechanic, and I've seen it used against me in several game's I've played against my opponents to starve me out of options while still taking my health down consistently. Also it feels pretty bad when you put one of these great prophecies into your deck only to always draw them rather than get them from your rune procs, and that happens a lot to me at least.

                              2 of 2 people found this helpful
                              • 12.
                                SadoMessiah

                                @KyteP1 But they still should not be complete gamechangers

                                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                • 13.
                                  KyteP1

                                  @SadoMessiah but to be fair, any card your opponent draws can be a complete game changer... a lot of games of magic or hearthstone are won off of someone topdecking the perfect answer or a card that gives them lethal, some games are swung into one players favor by playing the right counterspell or removal instant, or in HS getting your opponent to play into a secret and make an inefficient turn trying to figure out what you placed down. This gives these games a sense of agency for players on both turns, not just their own, and the fact that you know and have to intentionally give your opponent a card for damaging them, and potentially a prophecy that could end up being your doom, is one of the coolest things I've seen from a mindgames point of view. It adds value and weight to hitting your opponent as opposed to a game like HS, where the face meta has plagued it for ages now and has imo made the game too stale for me to enjoy it's ranked play. Does it feel bad when you hit face and get crushed by a prophecy? Yeah sure... but so far hasn't been as crushing as playing against blue-black control in magic and "ye ol' face deck" in HS... I'd take this over either of those any day.

                                  • 14.
                                    johnwhitegm

                                    @eric - "Yes, you are missing the fact that prophecies cards have an increased mana cost for their effects, what means that you are in a disavantage when you don't draw them when runes breaks."

                                     

                                    In theory yes, but how many cards (2/2 blue with shackle?, 1/2 green lethal, guard) have prophecy are still pretty darn playable even without prophecy?

                                    1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                    Previous First 1 2 Next