2 Replies Latest reply on Sep 29, 2016 3:03 PM by nezix

    5+ Relentless Raider not setting off runes? Also Master of Thieves + Thieve's Den Bug.

    Spleko

      So I'm not sure if this is a bug or not. Here's a video then I'll explain what I'm confused about in case it's not apparent.

      Elder Scrolls Legends: Exodia (Relentless Wispmother) - YouTube

       

      So I made this deck with the idea of playing Wispmother, then 3 Relentless Raiders, then Attacking with the Wispmother, potentially being lethal damage from 30. In it's current state, this combo is guaranteed lethal damage from 30 because the rune draws/possible prophecy activations do not go off for the opponent.
      I could imagine an interpretation of Relentless Raider's effect where this is the intended functionality, but I am under the impression that it is a bug seeing as the runes do not even graphically break as the opponent loses health.
      What I would expect to happen in this case would be:

      -Wispmother attacks face, lowering hp from 21 to 16 breaking 1 rune.

      Then two different things could happen.

      -Raiders trigger, one deals 1 and breaks a rune.

      -Opponent draws/attempts to use prophecy. All Raiders store an activation? (this is part of why this interaction is in general not very clear)

      -5 other initial Raiders fire, lowering from 15 to 10, breaking a rune.

      -Raiders fire again. With one Raider shot remaining a rune breaks, and the cycle proceeds, ever confusing.

      OR

      -Raiders go off, deal 6 damage, lowering hp from 16 to 10 breaking 2 runes. (Raider chargers are stored? In the case that The opponent plays a prophecy that heals them, the Raiders would technically be firing twice off of this one instance of damage.)

      -Opponent draws 2 cards/attempts to use 2 prophecies.

      -Raiders go off, deal 6 lowering from 10 to 4.

      -Opponent draws/prophecy.

      -Raiders kill.

       

      There are probably other ways this interaction could be interpreted that I didn't think of. In general I think this just needs clarification.

      Do I think this interaction is too strong in any way? No, I'm just not sure its intended. The deck is far too inconsistent to be anything more than fun in a developed meta game. This could change with a larger player base and further optimization of course.
      As an aside, I do think that in its current form this interaction is fairly unhealthy, as dying from 30 with minimal counterplay is far from fun for the opponent. The option for prophecies would not only make this interaction much easier to balance were it to become fairly strong (unlikely in my opinion), but also allow a certain degree of counterplay, as right now the counterplay revolves around having removal or a guard for the Wispmother on the turn it's played. In fact, with enough damage on board to break a rune, the combo can be pulled off from 10 mana safely. If you miraculously have an Elixer of Magika charge on turn 12 you can actually do this from a completely empty board if a Crushing Blow can provide enough damage to break a rune.

       

      To summarize; Relentless Raider has super unclear interactions when there are more than a normal amount of them on the board/when multiple runes are broken at the same time.

       

       

      Other thing is a fairly straight forward bug.

      I was playing a Pilfer deck against a friend. I had Master of Thieves and Thieve's Den on the board.

      I attacked twice with Master of Thieves as he is granted a Pilfer effect by Den, and his effect is applied to all friendly minions, not just 'other' friendly minions. This is fairly clear, and an interaction I understand well.

      The following turn my friend destroyed my Thieves Den, I believe with the 4 mana 3/4 neutral card (forget name at the moment).

      Come my turn, I attacked with Master of Thieves, and to my surprise I was able to attack with him a second time. He still had the second attack even though he did not have a Pilfer effect anymore.

      To my knowledge Master of Thieves is a continuous effect and can change as the board state changes. It is not something that is simply granted and must be silenced off of a card.

      Unfortunately I don't have a video of this bug, but I could likely produce one were it needed.

        • 1.
          jamz20

          Same thing just happened to me.  Not sure that mechanic is working as intended.

          • 2.
            nezix

            I don't think the raider's thing is a bug, it's just that the prophecies don't "happen" until all the triggers from the attack are finished. That they self-activate more triggers is a rare and silly combo but hardly common.