3 Replies Latest reply on Sep 10, 2016 9:55 AM by VaclavRomanov

    Frustrations with repetitive decks


      I came to this game as a long time MTG player who was looking for a better online experience and a long time Hearthstone player with many frustrations from the idle developers of that game.  I have loved many of the improvements of Elder Scrolls Legends compared to those games which I feels mixes some of the complexity of MTG with the clear and crisp interface from Hearthstone.


      However, I am starting to feel very frustrated after many dozens of hours of play with the lack of variety seen in ladder decks.  Looking at my past games, 6 out of 8 of these have been versus white (willpower) decks spamming tokens and then divine fervor.  Not only that, they are almost all playing the same exact Spellsword list as everyone else, so there is no variety in ladder.


      This is a similar problem Hearthstone had which they never fixed.  I think it leads to a very stale meta.  There are several issues I have with this:


      1) Frustration with playing against the exact same deck and strategy almost every game makes the game feel stale and not exciting to queue into another game after finishing them. 

      2) Limiting my own deck variety.  There are several decks I have enjoyed making based around, what I consider, relatively interesting ideas, however they are poor matchups versus spam token decks.  It requires me to basically only be able to play very specific decks which have a favorable matchup to token spam and no ability to play the other 90% of decks to explore the card pool in this game.

      3) Lack of AOE removal.  Honestly this game needs some better board clears and tech cards to help beat these strategies.  Divine Fervor honestly isn't that strong of a card, it is just that there are no cards to punish this strategy.  The closest we have is something like Shadowfen Priest, although they still get their first turn after playing the support to make favorable trades.  In Magic, for instance, there were many board clears that were 4-5 mana, and cards that would kill enchantment or artifact "supports" that were 1-3 mana, so if 100% of people play one type of deck it would get slaughtered by people's abilities to tech in very hard counters, which this game does not have.  This is a problem Hearthstone still has which is why the game has devolved into swarming opponents with cheap junk minions and rushing face for a win in the first 5-6 turns with very few counters.


      Overall, I am frustrated because I have really loved my first impressions with this game and would love to see this game succeed.  However, I think it is really starting to turn of me and some of my friends when we feel the meta is ALREADY so stagnant and we are just in beta.  It restricts deckbuilding creativity and makes queuing into ladder games repetitive and not enjoyable when you keep bumping heads with the same decks over and over again.

        • 1.

          I totally, really, feel you.


          It's the same old green decks everywhere right now, to a point whereby I could literally predict the cards that were going to be spammed by my opponent - yet can't really stop it if I weren't playing somesort of green variant myself. I tried to play my Blue/yellow control deck - no hope. Tried my Blue/purple support deck? Not a chance.


          Just reached past Thief today and guess what my opponents I met in the past 7 games were? All green + something. Legend ranked? All green + something. Last month's legend ranks? All green + something.


          And how did I get so (relatively) far? Playing a green + something deck myself (Red green, actually). If the game balance is not infuriatingly non-existent, then you can rely on the sheer repetitiveness of the decks you see on ladder. All green, all the time, always.


          WTF developers?

          • 2.

            If I might play devil's advocate a wee bit. I'm running Red/Green as my mainstay and my main source of aggravation and opposition was a constant wall of BLUE, with usually yellow. Lately I've seen a strong shift toward Yellow but Blue is still a major player. I might also add that I'm very pleasantly pleased to see some single color decks popping up. I've been interested in the possibility of those for a long time, and now I'm actually seeing them in play. So that has a lot of promise in the future.


            I definitely hear you on support removal, since I think Ferocious Dreugh is about the only one that actually eliminates that, and Shadowfen too I think offhand. But I simply adapted and learned to work around it. Yea its a pain to see my opponent sneeze and toss a bunch of 1/1's all over the place and be suddenly and magically blessed with Divine Fervor and that b$tch 5th Legionnaire Trainer or whatever she is LOL. But a Fireball, or Burn and Pillage counters those nicely, and it's always a good day when my Grahtwood Ambusher drops on prophecy and slaughters a lane full of 1 hit pointers. makes me giggle like a madman.


            But honestly I'm not seeing a ton of Green in opposition. I suppose experiences vary. But I'm always excited when I see Green/Red on the other side because I have the opportunity to learn a new trick or two. And Imagine my pleasant surprise back in the day when I learned the little ole Murkwater Witch or 0 cost Curse can bypass a ward altogether and forget about that irritating Breton Ward and his Atronach. No fuss no muss....just Debuff, and DONE.


            In the end I don't think the fault lies with Devs so much as Human Nature. People take the path of least resistance, and when they get their hands on a deck build that wins....they play the crap out of it, until they learn a single salient fact the hard way in making rank. It's not the deck build......it's the psychology behind it and the mind that's playing it.


            Case in point, my Red/Green hit a slump back at Rank 6. I was losing constantly, and couldn't figure out why. So I temporarily abandoned the deck and went with a different combination. Then on a lark went back to Red/Green and I suppose was just in an aggressive, positive state of mind because I started winning.....and winning. And I just railroaded the opposition and kicked in the door. Yesterday, was Rank 6. As of this morning Rank 3.


            Same deck, different play style. All I added was Green Pact Stalker.........why I didn't have the SOB in there in the first place I have no clue. But that was it. So there's a lot to be said for the play style.

            • 3.

              I hit Legend with something completely unique (although I've noted a few imitations starting to crop up - they're still missing tons of the synergies I used however) that's absolutely different than 90% of the stuff out there being a more control styled build.


              Keep at it, it's harder to develop something unique than just copy - and aggro is always going to be easiest to pick up for most people while a game is in it's infancy - that should change with time.


              There's definitely the tools to make control builds right now (perhaps they could use some buffing however, I'd say yes - but I'm obviously biased) and other "less seen" builds - just stick at it, and think about how to hate out the meta that gives you trouble and keep adapting. It took me around 10 revisions of my concept to break into Rank 2 I'd guess and another 10-15 to go from Rank 2 to Legend. But it can happen. Be persistent and keep thinking about what could've improved a game that was under your own control via card selection.

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